—June 26, 2024
Muiterij, Peter Mertens’ latest book, looks at the rapidly changing balance of power in the world. Indian Marxist historian and author Vijay Prashad was one of the people who inspired Peter. Lava brought the two storytellers together.
“Mutiny is a book about class struggle, and that term is probably not used once,” Vijay Prashad notes. As a publisher, he wants to bring such stories himself. “These stories about global class struggle are necessary to realize that a few reforms in your own little world cannot solve everything.”
“Analysing everything at conferences until you go home depressed does not bring socialist consciousness,” Mertens confirms. “The working people have a power, and that power is greater than most people believe. We have to offer a perspective, so that people walk with their heads held high and are proud of their class.”
Mertens is not new to this. The analysis and theorization through interviews, reports and testimonies has become a unique trademark. He did it before with How dare they ? about the euro and banking crisis, Graailand about the elite and its politicians , and They have forgotten us about the Covid pandemic. One by one bestsellers that also found an eager readership across the national borders in French, English, German and Spanish.
In Muiterij you look at the whole world and analyze how events in Belgium and Europe are connected to what is happening in the Global South. Why did you choose that broader perspective this time?
Peter Mertens When our farmers protest – which we have often experienced in recent months – it is not just a local issue. When you analyse the pricing in the entire food chain, you notice that it also has to do with multinationals in the agro-industry and even with oil companies. It is about inflation and super profits. Europe is in turmoil, there is a lot of social struggle. For example, I noticed that there are more strikes, more people on strike and more strike days in France today than in 1968. And yet 1968 is burned into the collective memory as the year of mass protest. When I wrote the chapter about the British nurse Kath, I discovered that Great Britain now has more strike days against the government and the austerity policy than in the 1980s against Margaret Thatcher. There is more and more social conflict. The class struggle is very much alive in Europe.
I also wanted to show that there is a connection with what is happening in the Global South. There too, something is changing. The hegemony of the United States is coming to an end, I think. That creates contradictions and struggles in the North and the Global South. In these circumstances, it is important that social movements in Europe and in the South join forces.
Why did you travel all the way to Berlin to meet Vijay Prashad and interview him for your book?
Peter Mertens When I was writingmy previous book They Have Forgotten Us , I read Vijay’s work and got to know the International People’s Assembly , an international people’s movement. That was like a breath of fresh air for me, it was exactly what I needed. You can hardly write a book like this without consulting a voice from the South.
Vijay, you published They Have Forgotten Us in India. Where does your interest come from? It is a book about Belgium, that little spot on the world map.
Vijay Prashad What Peter says about the class struggle in Europe is interesting. It is not only in Europe that the struggle has declined in people’s perception. It is the same in India. Hundreds of millions of workers are going on strike but the Indian media is barely talking about it. In that sense, there is a global class struggle going on. And I am looking for ways to tell the stories about that. The major media outlets are just not interested in it. You learn that you are not just fighting your own government but a system. Someone who lives in Belgium and is confronted with problems in his company learns from those stories that someone in Argentina or India is facing similar problems. You get a broader view of the struggle. You realize that a few reforms in your own little world are not enough to solve everything. The interesting thing about They Have Forgotten Us is that the book is not really about Belgium. It is about the experiences of the working class during the COVID pandemic, everywhere in the world. Belgium is a much richer society than, for example, Namibia, but the experience of nurses, doctors, firefighters, ambulance drivers, etc. was universal.
And what appeals to you in Peter’s new book?
Vijay Prashad What I like about Mutiny is that it analyses the struggle through the experience of people who are in the middle of it. It is a book about class struggle, although that term is probably not used once. It shows you how the class struggle plays out and how it is experienced by its actors.
For example, in the book an economist speaks, then a woman describes how economic policy impacts her life and how she wants to do something about it. Why shouldn’t that story be read by someone in Pakistan or anywhere else? People everywhere will say: “I know that feeling. I feel just like that worker in Belgium.”
Mutiny tells the story of what you sometimes call “the new mood in the South,” a new awakening and resistance to imperialist domination. That is a subject you have written a lot about yourself.
Vijay Prashad Indeed. We see today a multitude of mutinies, from different angles. The book starts in Belgium, England, etc., with the classic trade union struggle in Europe. In India you have the farmers’ struggle, which is also a trade union struggle. But there are other hierarchies in the world. There is not only the hierarchy of the owners of companies and the people who work for them. And then there are the hierarchies in terms of geography, governments, states, world relations.
Take Namibia, a small country in south-west Africa, once a colony of Germany. For many years, Namibia was ruled by SWAPO, originally a liberation movement, but now in fact a neoliberal party that has included austerity policies in its programme. This year, the Prime Minister of Namibia came to the Munich Security Conference. The German host asked, “Why doesn’t Namibia condemn Russia?” The Prime Minister looked him straight in the eye and said, “When we were fighting apartheid, the Soviet Union helped us, but you didn’t.” In effect, she was saying to Germany, “Why should we let you tell us who to condemn and who not to condemn?” So the Prime Minister of Namibia is also part of the mutiny. She may represent forces that we disagree with in their local policies, but I would put her in the camp of the mutiny. If we limit ourselves to the struggles we can rally behind, we will miss the real changes in the world
Peter, in your book you use a metaphor of below deck and above deck mutiny: does that refer to the different levels Vijay talks about?
Peter Mertens I totally agree with Vijay. The left needs to offer hope and perspective. When I was in South Africa, someone from the metal workers’ union NUMSA came up to me and said he felt sorry for me because I was from Europe. When I asked him why, he talked about the rise of the far right and how the working class is not as militant as it used to be. I don’t think that mobilises people. On the contrary, it makes people feel small and powerless. It’s like those academic conferences where intellectuals analyse everything until you go home depressed. That doesn’t create socialist consciousness. We need to offer a perspective so that people can walk with their heads held high and be proud of their class. I want us to build a movement of hope, but without being naive. We shouldn’t think that everything will change tomorrow. In general, class consciousness is at a low ebb. That’s also the case in most parts of the Global South.
How do we work on that movement?
Peter Mertens You have to read the situation, see and feel the movement, and then try to pull them up to the socialist, democratic and ecological perspective. Of course, we on the left want to be the voice of the people on the lower deck, but at the same time we have to be aware of what is happening on the upper deck. Look at South Africa. I was in The Hague when South Africa filed the genocide case against Israel with the International Court of Justice. It was impressive to see how the South African government stood up against imperialism. But at the same time I understand the NUMSA trade union, which is protesting against that same government in South Africa. I support South Africa in the case against Israel and at the same time I also support NUMSA in its protest against the neoliberal policies of the ANC government. That is what the metaphor of the mutiny above and below deck is about.
Young people are very supportive of Palestine and are demanding a ceasefire. It seems like every generation has an international issue that mobilizes them and teaches them how the world works. Think of the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the Iraq War, … Is the war in Gaza a similar event for the current generation?
Peter Mertens Yes and no. In 2003 there was the war in Iraq. For my generation that was the first time we had the feeling that there was not only a Belgian or European but a worldwide movement. Don’t forget that the internet was still a relatively new phenomenon at that time. We saw what was happening in Washington or Islamabad and that gave us a powerful feeling: a generation that confronted the “United States of Aggression”.
Today it is the same. It is a global movement. The difference is that then it was a movement against a superpower that thought itself untouchable. Perhaps in the anti-imperialist movement there was hardly anyone who thought that American imperialism would end. Today American imperialism is coming to an end. It is still there and its military power is enormous, but there is a global feeling that it is finite. Therefore there is something more powerful and stronger in the movement today. At the end of an era a superpower becomes more violent, but on the other hand the global solidarity movement is also becoming more powerful.
Vijay Prashad If you say that the superpower is becoming more aggressive in its final phase, there is a good reason for it: the economic crisis. We are now in a situation where the United States and its allies are falling back on two forms of power. The first is the power over information. We should not underestimate that. They still have an overwhelming ability to shape the discourse worldwide. Then there is military power. The US and NATO, and their allies such as Japan and South Korea, account for 75% of global military expenditure.
Can that military power ever be broken?
Peter Mertens Even that military power has its weaknesses. All those weapons have to be made and transported. A worker at the airport in Brussels, loading cargo, saw boxes that were destined for Tel Aviv. Together with a friend, he discovered that it was military equipment, on its way to Israel! A third person suggested that they discuss this with the union. In the end, the unions decided to boycott the transport of weapons to Israel. So it starts with one worker inspecting a box and talking to his colleagues about it, and in the end, the Belgian unions decide to stop transporting weapons to Israel. In Australia, they followed the example of the Belgian unions. The same is happening in other countries. Even in this orgy of death and violence, there are signs of hope. We need to tell the stories of the struggle, because there is a lot of power in the people. There is power in the working people, and it is greater than most people believe.
Do you see signs of hope in the changing position of official bodies?
Peter Mertens Yes, indeed. The Belgian government is hypocritical because it is not transparent about arms shipments to Israel. In words it supports Palestine, but in deeds it arms Israel. But there is pressure from the youth and the solidarity movement, who are taking to the streets. That has an influence on the political agenda and that makes a difference. Some people wonder whether, for example, the case before the International Court of Justice can change anything. It does indeed make a big difference because we are now officially talking about a possible case of genocide. That is a slap in the face to the United States. And all of this is the result of pressure from below.
Do you also see differences between Europe and the US, and even between European countries themselves? Are these signs of hope?
Peter Mertens There will also be further clashes in Europe. Look at the energy issue. The United States can now sell its liquefied natural gas (LNG) to Europe instead of Russian gas. That is a first battle won for them, but that is not the end of the story. There will be a reaction from imperialist powers in the European Union against the US, because they are now the ones who are the ones who get the short end of the stick. But make no mistake, the goal is not to build an imperialist European project against the US. Yet we can use every contradiction with the US to weaken imperialism. There can also be a kind of uprising from the upper deck in Europe. Just because we are now so under the thumb of the US does not mean that it will always be like this.
Vijay Prashad The energy issue is a barrel of contradictions. Take France. The country has traditionally depended on Niger as a major supplier of uranium for its nuclear industry. Niger is one of the countries in the Sahel that recently suffered a coup. The new rulers have shown France the door. If this escalates further, they could refuse to supply uranium. Then France has a real problem: you are dependent on expensive LNG from the US, which is much more expensive than the gas from Russia that used to be. No more uranium is coming in. Your energy bill is rising, which ultimately means that all prices are rising further. Where does France stand as a country? Where does the French project of the late President General de Gaulle stand, who stood for French independence and even left the military arm of NATO in 1966? Will a French politician opt for a Gaullist policy and say “wait a minute, in the interest of France we actually need peace in Ukraine”?
You know, the Russians might not want to supply natural gas to Europe in a few years. They’ve already built a huge number of pipelines to China. They could just say they don’t want to sell us natural gas anymore. Then France would still be dependent on liquid gas from the US. That’s pretty crazy, really. It’s bad for the planet. The ecological footprint is terrible. It’s incredibly expensive. And you’re increasingly dependent on the US. Isn’t that a contradiction!
But for now we don’t see much change?
Vijay Prashad Such contradictions are not mathematics. They are not linear. Contradictions are strongest where class struggle is taking place. Look at a country like Germany. Right now, 90% of the electoral parties have basically the same political agenda. 90% think the war in Ukraine should continue. 90% think they should increase military spending. That is crazy. Where is the space in the political establishment in a country like Germany to have a rational debate and discussion? But how long can that last? People should be able to discuss freely, but in many countries there is no open discussion. And that worries me. So it is up to the left parties to come out and explain the situation, not in big, ideological words, but in understandable language.
Peter Mertens I think that there is no political expression of Gaullism today. But I do think that a return is possible. Consciousness comes in different stages. There is the first, intuitive stage. I think that the intelligence of many people is underestimated. There are many people who feel that things are not going in the right direction in a country like Germany. In the Bundestag everyone is behind the government, but there is a difference with what people say on the street. In the polls, the majority of Germans are against the policy. Perhaps that movement has not yet found a political expression today, but that may come.
They want us to spend more on the military, with the 2% norm. Secondly, there is inflation and the answer to inflation. Raising interest rates makes it more expensive to pay off debt. And so you have to subsidize industry, just like the US does with their Inflation Reduction Act . A lot of money is being thrown at strategic sectors. Europe also has to respond to this subsidy war with a lot of money. We are talking about billions and billions. And if you add these three things together: more and more military spending, more expensive debt payments and more subsidies to large private companies… then you already know who is going to pay. That is why they are preparing for austerity 2.0. Some people have already asked me if it will be the same as in 2011, when I wrote a book about austerity. No, it will be worse than in 2011. And the social climate will be accordingly. I was in Germany to research the book and when I met some trade unionists, they said: “You have such a great train system in Belgium.” “Excuse me,” I said, “that must be a joke.” When they told me about the situation in Germany, I understood that it is even worse there than here. The same goes for the schools, the housing, the nurses, and so on. Then I went to London and met Grace Blakeley and she told me about the situation in the United Kingdom. Everywhere in Europe, investment in public services is declining.
And now the political climate is moving to the far right. But we must not forget that this is a wave, and waves go up and down. So we have to prepare for the next wave and we have to prepare ourselves for it in such a way that we can push it to the left. But one thing is certain: there will be another wave. I think people underestimate how angry people are. Moreover, people think that only poor people are angry. That is not true. The working class, people who have jobs, good jobs protected by unions, they are also angry because they feel what is happening. Imagine: you work at BASF and that is going well. But then some politician decides that no more Russian gas will be imported. And then suddenly the ammonia plant has to close.
One point Peter makes in the book is the importance of organization. Do you recognize that, Vijay?
Vijay Prashad Yes, that part of the book is great! The idea of turning this class consciousness into an organized force is very interesting. It has been an interesting phenomenon in the movement for over 100 years. Karl Marx wrote about how the mole burrows underground and makes tunnels. Revolutionary activity is not when the mole comes to the surface. Revolutionary activity is what the mole does underground. And that is why people get discouraged. They think, “Why do we have to have a meeting with our group again? Why do these small demonstrations? Why do all these things? Is it really worth it?” But actually they are preparing for the moment when this big wave comes again and the mole comes to the surface. If you are not prepared then, you miss the big wave.
I saw that in Tahrir Square in Cairo. In Egypt, there was that spontaneous uprising in 2011, the Arab Spring. I visited the protesters in Tahrir Square where they were demonstrating for months. It was an uprising of all classes and sectors of society, but there was no organization that was able to lead. I know that when there is such a mass uprising, one organization cannot just come and take charge. There are several organizations involved. But you need an organization to be the guide for all these organizations. Let me give you an example. One day, people were frustrated with how the media, the Egyptian state media, was reporting what was going on. There was some discussion that day. If there had been a well-organized party in that square at that time, coming every day, helping to set up security, helping to set up the toilets, helping to make food, and earning the trust of the people, the party members could have stood up at that moment and said, “Comrades, it is twenty to four now. At 4:30 we gather and go to the state media office to occupy it and take over the broadcasts.” But no one knew how to do that.
A leader at such a moment has to gain a lot of confidence when he stands before the crowd. So for that you have to spend a lifetime digging tunnels like a mole, learning the skills, knowing how to read the mood, knowing that you can’t stand up and say anything before the people themselves feel it. For all that, building an organization is so crucial. You go from meeting to meeting, from discussion to discussion. But without those discussions, there is no breakthrough. Tahrir Square was crushed because nobody was able to channel the energy of a mass uprising.
That’s why it’s important to understand the mood and to know when people are ready. We have to be prepared for this. And that means organizing. And any person who believes that organizing is 100% online has lost their mind. It’s a matter of meeting, talking, building trust. Political work is not always about having the best political line or being able to explain it well. It’s about building trust. And this is the time for that. It’s so important to earn the love of the people with your activities. I’ve seen that in so many places. When you build the trust of the people and then you come in and say, “Look, I can provide political leadership,” the answer you get is, “We’ve been waiting for you.”
It is as the Iranian poet Forugh Farrokhzad said in the 1960s:
We are waiting for someone.
We don’t know who they are, but we’re waiting for them.
We know they are coming.
We are waiting for them.
Anyone who reads that poem now thinks it is a religious poem. After all, in the Shiite faith the prophet returns. But actually the title is “ The Red Flag .”
The Legacy of the Italian Communist Party
“You can’t erase Russia from the world map”
Number 29
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